Coffee Knowledge2011-04-06 22:441.64.x.xJust read your coffee reviews and was really impressed by your knowledge on coffee. I wish to learn more about coffee. Any suggestions on where/how to start?
Re: Coffee Knowledge2011-04-07 00:26Thanks for your kind words.. Not to really be humble but I know next to nothing for coffee
If you want to spend next to nothing, read a lot... Check these website out, coffeegeek.com, sweetmarias.com and home-barista.net, for example.. The key here is to really read a lot and everything but you might not get what you want fast enough. (that's what I did before too)
After reading, you will want to see whether what you read is exactly what you will get or not.
I suggest you drop by hkcoffee.com. They should be able to guide you with quite a few hand-on experience... Remember, even though they need, they are doing business and they need to make $ on that. You might want to join their class which is a bargain for me, HK$500/2 two hours session for each type of coffee preparation... Check their websites.
You might also want to try drinking coffee at various place and see whether you can get what people said on openrice and some other coffee lover website. Go back to talk to them why you agree/not agree.
If you are in hurry and have money, there's lots of training cost out there... For example, you could check Glorycoffee.com for some sort of certificate based on Australian style... I don't know much as I'm not aspired to know that much... Just love to be a coffee drinker like this.
In all, the key here is to read a lot and to test whether you agree/disagree with what people said.
Let me know if I could be of help further... Otherwise, enjoy... Remember, coffee is for enjoyment and don't get too serious unless you want to be in the coffee business and that I don't know at all and don't want to be in too..
Re: Coffee Knowledge2011-04-07 00:28Sorry for typo for the 4th paragraph
I suggest you drop by hkcoffee.com. They should be able to guide you with quite a few hand-on experience... Remember, even though "they are very nice", they are doing business and they need to make $ on that. You might want to join their class which is a bargain for me, HK$500/2 two hours session for each type of coffee preparation... Check their websites.
Hi. thanks for the website last time.2010-07-22 02:18222.166.x.xHi. thanks for the website last time. although I am still far away from getting one =.=!.
Just realise you also do cupping, hope we can share some thought about coffee in the future I am current trying to go to most of the higher rating coffee shop that you and others such as:Babedolphin and 唔食都知唔好食 went to.
Re: Hi. thanks for the website last time.2010-07-22 04:59At my level, I cannot and will not be called a cupper so your words is way too kind to me. Let me know your opinion when you visit those cafe. Both "agree" and "not agree" are all good I think I will learn something out of it.
Re. The Pantray2009-10-10 13:18124.158.x.xThanks again for your kind words Boblam
None of my friends wanted to order the Beef Parpadelle even after my sincere attempt to persuade them, so I guess I will have to visit the The Pantray again.
Next time I want to sit at the Bar Table in front of the open kitchen and see for myself how they prepare the All Day Breakfast (to verify against the characteristics of the item in the All Day Breakfast I had)
On your last visit did you get the chance to try something else aside from the All Day Breakfast, Catch Catch and Mini Burgers? I saw many ppl ordered the Mussels, I wonder if they are as good as they look. LOL
Re. Louis' Steak House2009-09-25 13:29124.158.x.xyes, you are right! the items here are not of average pricing for sure and there are plenty other choices with better locations too. ... I guess it is the same for Jimmy's Kitchen but at least they have better / easy-to-get-to locations tongue
You are right. I would definitely try Crema soon. While Fuel milk foam is very nice, it does not have the strong milky taste to it or as much as I hoped. First Cup @ TST do have a strong milk flavor to its foam based on my experiences.
Babedolphi's reply on my general message board was very "coffee" technical as well (including coffee machine details and its mechanisms ... wow) , you should check it out!
I am learning so much from the both of you. Thank You indeed !!!
Re: Fuel 2009-09-14 23:27124.158.x.xHi Boblam! Thanks for your info! Yeah, to my humble knowledge, in order to get a good foam, it must be frothed from cold milk and re-frothing is definitely a big no-no !!
Crema is a place I am yet to try and it is in my very-soon-to-try list !
I totally understand what you mean by the changing of taste over time. I used to love mlik beverages but no longer so, it is mostly espresso for the time being. When you mention acidity, it reminds me of the Starbucks Blend of I tried a few months ago. It was the first blend from CHINA I ever tried and it was very high in acidity !! It was their "First China-Sourced Coffee Blend" called "South of the Clouds" from Yannan. Did I mention it was very high in acidity? ... ... I wonder if they still sell that blend in Hong Kong now or it was a special offering only.
Thanks again for your kind words on the pictures! I am only using a snapshot DC (Lumix) because it is easier to carry around for the purpose of taking quick snaps on food
(it seems openrice has just added its own watermarks to all uploaded pictures, interesting move indeed)
I don't recall the high acidity with South of the Cloud blends from Starbucks and it seemed to be seasonal offering. Actually, I think it was OK but not great.
I like Starbuck's Tanzania Rift Valley a lot. Roast lighter than its usual offering and retain some nice acidity there even in its stale state of bean.
Re: Vero2009-09-11 10:21219.76.x.xThank you so much for your info / tips !!
wow, based on her answer that ... all coffees are "imported" into HK so it cannot be fresh ... I am really surprised . She should give cafe corridor or my favorite cafe assembly and ask Felix for some tips ...
Vero is a nice place to chill indeed but I think they should try to ensure consistency quality on all their offering, including coffee which is a great compliment to chocolate in my opinion...
Re: Re: Vero2009-09-12 07:50You're welcome. I agree Vero is definitely a nice place. A great cup of coffee over there would be even better. However, considering its offering and my experience with the shop, I still have a hard time bringing myself up to order coffee there.
Cool.2009-08-23 00:56219.77.x.xThanks for the update on the Hong Kong part of things.
I don't know - I think if you ever tried the Australian contestant's coffee blends, you will be surprised how much more sophisticate and different they are to the ones even from Italy or Hong Kong.
Italy has inherent restrictions as they need to suit a particular style, stale or not.
HK? I just haven't tried any locally roasted blends which are world standard either. Perhaps like you said, HK is a late comer to the scene. Let's see where it leads to in the near future!
I have too little experience with coffee from Aussie to make any meaningful comment. I agree with you on Italy. Hope Italy does not go down along the same path as what France did on the wine world, particularly following the Judgment of Paris in 1976.
Actually...2009-08-18 00:29219.78.x.xI just found out that the 2nd winner works at Wings Bar. (unexpected venue for a barista getting 2nd lol.) And the 3rd no idea.
Did you know who actually competed by any chance? Would have thought the Zambra guys would have done well but as I said, didn't follow this up so have no clue and can't find much info on the website! Was super busy those few weeks Regret, regret
Re: Actually...2009-08-18 00:48I like to try the Wings bar.
I think they have names post on who competed but they didn't disclose their associations. Guess the same reason as openrice.com, ie propaganda/advertising which sounds really weird to me.
Others I met in person is Regina, also at Epoch Taikoo. Unfortunately, she had some problem with the grinder on the first round. Two to three more from McCafe training center (I told you earlier)
Surprisingly, Fiona of Crema Coffee was listed as one of the contestant but I didn't see her name on the final list. Guess she made the right decision not to join
Hi again.2009-08-18 00:18219.78.x.xHaven't seen you post much reviews lately! Been busy?
Btw, have a question. I didn't really follow up the HK Barista Championship 2009 organised by Danes of Aust, although I know that Tracy won the local comp before flying to Sydney to compete. Btw, that Victorian winner Jesse Hyde of the Australian Finals 2009 is very good, although a few of the past winners weren't competing (to let new upcoming baristas have a chance), so Tracy was up against strong competition and there was absolutely no way she could have won I guess, let alone get into Top 10.
Anyway, do u have any ideas where the local HK Baristas that got 2nd and 3rd work in Hong Kong? I didn't follow that.
See ya around!
On a side note - I gave up on coffee completely recently. Can't seem to find a really good coffee locally (Indies or imported beans) that really entices me to go back on a regular basis. Know any good ones for recommendations? The 2nd reason is because its bloody hot man!!!!!
Re: Hi again.2009-08-18 00:44No chance to win! That's what Tracy implied to me last time I saw here (I wrote about it all with some picture but was banned by openrice editor due to "propaganda/advertising" nature of the post... I protested but to no avail.
Anyway, almost all Indies are known to you so I guess nothing I could help.
Hot!! Well, I'm having Capp and Espresso at three cafe today, two times on Saturday and one time on Sunday in Bangkok... So u have NO excuse to skip it.
There's lots more cafe in Bangkok but those with potential makes terrible coffee, some with ground beans left in the hopper, some stirred their froth milk to mitigate the soap bubble on the milk and some reheat the milk..
Goods one are spartan decorated cafe/roaster like Bangkok Espresso Lab, Seat2cup and P&F (the last one is the sponsor of GBC in Thailand and win Coffeereview.com on its espresso blends (90 points))
The nicely decorated but terrible one in my opinion is Kuppa Tea & Coffee (famous for food and dessert - coffee is ultra expensive for Thai standard and worst than McCafe in HK for sure) and Elefin (Frothed milk was stirred before pouring, roaster trained by ex-Starbucks roasters!)...
Middle of the road is called Zana's Bean. I had it at Surawongse branch, near Silom, the financial district in Bangkok.
Re: Hi again.2009-08-20 23:03Final GBC result Sensory Technic Subtotal Penalty Total 1st HYDE Jesse Australia 251.50 63.50 315.00 0.00 315.00 2nd STATHIS Alex Australia 204.00 64.50 268.50 0.00 268.50 3rd ELKHUIZEN Luke Australia 202.00 64.00 266.00 0.00 266.00 PEEKA Piyawan Thailand 206.00 62.00 268.00 15.00 253.00 NEILSON Chris Australia 156.00 57.75 213.75 5.00 208.75 KWOK Tracy HongKong 140.50 58.25 198.75 5.00 193.75
Some note 1. There's one missing person from Korea. 2. While HK ranked last, I like to point out the sensory taste which is quite close to one Aussie. The technic score is not that bad... This means bad coffee? 3. It amazed me that Thailand scores quite high but coffee I had in BKK are on average worse than HK, except from the Thai sponsor to this barista called P&F which is quite nice, particularly considering the price
Re: Hi again.2009-08-22 01:08Talk to Tracy just now and she told me Chris Neilson's coffee tasted similar to hers. Tracy's coffee is imported Italian bean. Considering the more liberal rules of GBC vs. WBC, I think my assumption of bad/stale blends make some sense for the score.
If that's the case, add another 50pt to Tracy to accounted for the staleness of the bean, she will still come in last but with a much tighter score (198.75+50 additional point on bean staleness) = 248pt.
Also, I know that Thai barista, Piyawan used freshly and locally roasted blend that scored very high (90+ points) from coffeereview.com.
Thus, we should consider this a success for Tracy. Thailand has been sending people to WBC for a while so they have a comparative advantage toward HK.
Hi!2009-07-21 23:34219.78.x.xThanks for letting me know about meeting the Barista Trainers for McDonalds and other things... !
You know what funny is that - they do use SuperAutos in Australian McCafes. Its rather pathetic haha
Anyway, I really should follow the local Barista Championship details a bit more, its very interesting. I attend a few of the ones in Aust before - although I would guess that the standards have a bit of difference.... although HK is catching up.
Its people like you and me who need to criticise them a bit more, also the 'restaurants', to let them know the customers nowadays expect a bit more. Then - they might just improve ^o^'
Ok - keep in touch. These days not posting much here, sick of using computers at night. Makes me want to puke
Re: Hi!2009-07-22 04:29Thks for the msg. Agree with the comment.
I think all barista knew what they should do vs. they've been doing. Only if they care to do it or can do it.
HK is a place of efficient obsess so typically what makes the work flow faster wins at the expense of the quality.
And all the good cafes have never achieved the huge financial success so there is no urge to do the good thing. But it definitely comes a long way from the old past.
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tabero
Boblam
Encore 味食緣
Meantime, I'll keep track of your OR reviews on coffee.
Encore 味食緣
Look forward to reading more of your reviews.
Boblam
If you want to spend next to nothing, read a lot... Check these website out, coffeegeek.com, sweetmarias.com and home-barista.net, for example.. The key here is to really read a lot and everything but you might not get what you want fast enough. (that's what I did before too)
After reading, you will want to see whether what you read is exactly what you will get or not.
I suggest you drop by hkcoffee.com. They should be able to guide you with quite a few hand-on experience... Remember, even though they need, they are doing business and they need to make $ on that. You might want to join their class which is a bargain for me, HK$500/2 two hours session for each type of coffee preparation... Check their websites.
You might also want to try drinking coffee at various place and see whether you can get what people said on openrice and some other coffee lover website. Go back to talk to them why you agree/not agree.
If you are in hurry and have money, there's lots of training cost out there... For example, you could check Glorycoffee.com for some sort of certificate based on Australian style... I don't know much as I'm not aspired to know that much... Just love to be a coffee drinker like this.
In all, the key here is to read a lot and to test whether you agree/disagree with what people said.
Let me know if I could be of help further... Otherwise, enjoy... Remember, coffee is for enjoyment and don't get too serious unless you want to be in the coffee business and that I don't know at all and don't want to be in too..
Boblam
I suggest you drop by hkcoffee.com. They should be able to guide you with quite a few hand-on experience... Remember, even though "they are very nice", they are doing business and they need to make $ on that. You might want to join their class which is a bargain for me, HK$500/2 two hours session for each type of coffee preparation... Check their websites.
mrvincenttso
Just realise you also do cupping, hope we can share some thought about coffee in the future
I am current trying to go to most of the higher rating coffee shop that you and others such as:Babedolphin and 唔食都知唔好食 went to.
Boblam
mrvincenttso
jason.bonvivant
None of my friends wanted to order the Beef Parpadelle even after my sincere attempt to persuade them, so I guess I will have to visit the The Pantray again.
Next time I want to sit at the Bar Table in front of the open kitchen and see for myself how they prepare the All Day Breakfast (to verify against the characteristics of the item in the All Day Breakfast I had)
On your last visit did you get the chance to try something else aside from the All Day Breakfast, Catch Catch and Mini Burgers? I saw many ppl ordered the Mussels, I wonder if they are as good as they look. LOL
Jason
Boblam
Sit at the bar table, what a great idea.
No, I didn't have a chance to order the mussels though it looks quite tempting... Next time then.
jason.bonvivant
Jason
jason.bonvivant
You are right. I would definitely try Crema soon. While Fuel milk foam is very nice, it does not have the strong milky taste to it or as much as I hoped. First Cup @ TST do have a strong milk flavor to its foam based on my experiences.
Babedolphi's reply on my general message board was very "coffee" technical as well (including coffee machine details and its mechanisms ... wow) , you should check it out!
I am learning so much from the both of you. Thank You indeed !!!
Jason
jason.bonvivant
Crema is a place I am yet to try and it is in my very-soon-to-try list !
I totally understand what you mean by the changing of taste over time. I used to love mlik beverages but no longer so, it is mostly espresso for the time being. When you mention acidity, it reminds me of the Starbucks Blend of I tried a few months ago. It was the first blend from CHINA I ever tried and it was very high in acidity !! It was their "First China-Sourced Coffee Blend" called "South of the Clouds" from Yannan. Did I mention it was very high in acidity? ...
Thanks again for your kind words on the pictures! I am only using a snapshot DC (Lumix) because it is easier to carry around for the purpose of taking quick snaps on food
(it seems openrice has just added its own watermarks to all uploaded pictures, interesting move indeed)
Jason
Boblam
I don't recall the high acidity with South of the Cloud blends from Starbucks and it seemed to be seasonal offering. Actually, I think it was OK but not great.
I like Starbuck's Tanzania Rift Valley a lot. Roast lighter than its usual offering and retain some nice acidity there even in its stale state of bean.
jason.bonvivant
wow, based on her answer that ... all coffees are "imported" into HK so it cannot be fresh ... I am really surprised . She should give cafe corridor or my favorite cafe assembly and ask Felix for some tips ...
Vero is a nice place to chill indeed but I think they should try to ensure consistency quality on all their offering, including coffee which is a great compliment to chocolate in my opinion...
Jason
Boblam
HK Epicurus
I don't know - I think if you ever tried the Australian contestant's coffee blends, you will be surprised how much more sophisticate and different they are to the ones even from Italy or Hong Kong.
Italy has inherent restrictions as they need to suit a particular style, stale or not.
HK? I just haven't tried any locally roasted blends which are world standard either. Perhaps like you said, HK is a late comer to the scene. Let's see where it leads to in the near future!
Boblam
I have too little experience with coffee from Aussie to make any meaningful comment. I agree with you on Italy. Hope Italy does not go down along the same path as what France did on the wine world, particularly following the Judgment of Paris in 1976.
HK Epicurus
Did you know who actually competed by any chance? Would have thought the Zambra guys would have done well but as I said, didn't follow this up so have no clue and can't find much info on the website! Was super busy those few weeks
Thanks again!
Boblam
I think they have names post on who competed but they didn't disclose their associations. Guess the same reason as openrice.com, ie propaganda/advertising which sounds really weird to me.
Others I met in person is Regina, also at Epoch Taikoo. Unfortunately, she had some problem with the grinder on the first round. Two to three more from McCafe training center (I told you earlier)
Surprisingly, Fiona of Crema Coffee was listed as one of the contestant but I didn't see her name on the final list. Guess she made the right decision not to join
HK Epicurus
Btw, have a question. I didn't really follow up the HK Barista Championship 2009 organised by Danes of Aust, although I know that Tracy won the local comp before flying to Sydney to compete. Btw, that Victorian winner Jesse Hyde of the Australian Finals 2009 is very good, although a few of the past winners weren't competing (to let new upcoming baristas have a chance), so Tracy was up against strong competition and there was absolutely no way she could have won I guess, let alone get into Top 10.
Anyway, do u have any ideas where the local HK Baristas that got 2nd and 3rd work in Hong Kong? I didn't follow that.
See ya around!
On a side note - I gave up on coffee completely recently. Can't seem to find a really good coffee locally (Indies or imported beans) that really entices me to go back on a regular basis. Know any good ones for recommendations?
Boblam
Anyway, almost all Indies are known to you so I guess nothing I could help.
Hot!! Well, I'm having Capp and Espresso at three cafe today, two times on Saturday and one time on Sunday in Bangkok... So u have NO excuse to skip it.
There's lots more cafe in Bangkok but those with potential makes terrible coffee, some with ground beans left in the hopper, some stirred their froth milk to mitigate the soap bubble on the milk and some reheat the milk..
Goods one are spartan decorated cafe/roaster like Bangkok Espresso Lab, Seat2cup and P&F (the last one is the sponsor of GBC in Thailand and win Coffeereview.com on its espresso blends (90 points))
The nicely decorated but terrible one in my opinion is Kuppa Tea & Coffee (famous for food and dessert - coffee is ultra expensive for Thai standard and worst than McCafe in HK for sure) and Elefin (Frothed milk was stirred before pouring, roaster trained by ex-Starbucks roasters!)...
Middle of the road is called Zana's Bean. I had it at Surawongse branch, near Silom, the financial district in Bangkok.
Boblam
1st HYDE Jesse Australia 251.50 63.50 315.00 0.00 315.00
2nd STATHIS Alex Australia 204.00 64.50 268.50 0.00 268.50
3rd ELKHUIZEN Luke Australia 202.00 64.00 266.00 0.00 266.00
PEEKA Piyawan Thailand 206.00 62.00 268.00 15.00 253.00
NEILSON Chris Australia 156.00 57.75 213.75 5.00 208.75
KWOK Tracy HongKong 140.50 58.25 198.75 5.00 193.75
Some note
1. There's one missing person from Korea.
2. While HK ranked last, I like to point out the sensory taste which is quite close to one Aussie. The technic score is not that bad... This means bad coffee?
3. It amazed me that Thailand scores quite high but coffee I had in BKK are on average worse than HK, except from the Thai sponsor to this barista called P&F which is quite nice, particularly considering the price
Boblam
If that's the case, add another 50pt to Tracy to accounted for the staleness of the bean, she will still come in last but with a much tighter score (198.75+50 additional point on bean staleness) = 248pt.
Also, I know that Thai barista, Piyawan used freshly and locally roasted blend that scored very high (90+ points) from coffeereview.com.
Thus, we should consider this a success for Tracy. Thailand has been sending people to WBC for a while so they have a comparative advantage toward HK.
Just my 2 cents
HK Epicurus
You know what funny is that - they do use SuperAutos in Australian McCafes. Its rather pathetic haha
Anyway, I really should follow the local Barista Championship details a bit more, its very interesting. I attend a few of the ones in Aust before - although I would guess that the standards have a bit of difference.... although HK is catching up.
Its people like you and me who need to criticise them a bit more, also the 'restaurants', to let them know the customers nowadays expect a bit more. Then - they might just improve ^o^'
Ok - keep in touch. These days not posting much here, sick of using computers at night. Makes me want to puke
Kind regards,
KELVIN (Babedolphin)
Boblam
I think all barista knew what they should do vs. they've been doing. Only if they care to do it or can do it.
HK is a place of efficient obsess so typically what makes the work flow faster wins at the expense of the quality.
And all the good cafes have never achieved the huge financial success so there is no urge to do the good thing. But it definitely comes a long way from the old past.